Shane Oliver interview: 10 lessons from a master communicator

Hi

As a finance journalist, I had the pleasure of regularly interviewing Shane Oliver to get his insights on economics and markets. (I later briefly worked with Shane while I was consulting to AMP Capital.)

But the article below is the first time I’ve interviewed him about his other expertise: clear and compelling communication.

Enjoy the article. And as usual, please email me with any thoughts or comments.

Ben

Shane Oliver interview: 10 lessons from the master economics communicator

Shane Oliver has become a household name as a markets and economics commentator for AMP Capital and AMP.

His Oliver’s Insights report is a must-read for journalists, financial planners and investors, and he regularly appears in the media.

Despite unprecedented change, Shane has remained one of Australia’s top financial communicators for over four decades.

I recently interviewed Shane to find out the secrets of his long-term success. Plus how he’s navigating the new world of social media and AI.

Here are 10 lessons I teased out that can help communicators and thought leaders build their personal and business brands:

1. Communicate with a ‘noble purpose’

Shane says his writing and communication have allowed him to build a personal franchise, which helped protect him in tough times.

And AMP views his comms activity as integral to the business, giving them a presence they otherwise wouldn’t have had.

But Shane says he is motivated by a higher purpose.

“I see helping educate people – giving them a better understanding of investment and economics – as a bit of a purpose, a noble purpose,” he says.

“It’s about better informing people about what matters for their investments and putting things in context – so a bit of a coaching role.

“To be a good communicator, you have to enjoy what you’re doing and want to communicate and engage with people.”

2. Know your audience

Shane says it is critical to think about your audience and what you’re trying to achieve. “It ultimately depends on what sort of business you’re running.”

He says one way to segment audiences is by different “levels” of sophistication.

When he started Oliver’s Insights it was pitched to journalists and financial planners who remain its core audience.

“They have a fair amount of understanding, but they're not necessarily experts in the field of economics,” he says. “But they were inundated with 50-page reports from stockbrokers. If it was going to get read, it had to be brief. So I ended up focusing on something which was about two pages long, because I think that's what most people can handle.”

3. Keep evolving with new mediums

Shane has evolved his communication practice as new mediums emerged. Oliver’s Insights is still emailed to financial planners. But it’s also available on AMP’s website and distributed via X/Twitter and LinkedIn.

Shane has added podcasting and video to his repertoire. He shoots conventional videos. And this year, with his colleagues Diana Mousina and My Bui who instigated it, started posting creative, short-form videos to Instagram and TikTok.

“The response has been quite positive. People say it’s really good.”

When it comes to AI, Shane says he has experimented with ChatGPT but had “mixed experiences”, including incorrect responses that wasted time.

 “I think it has a role but you’ve got to be careful with it”.

4. Maintain credibility with core reports and thought leadership

While social media has brought a whole new audience, Shane says it hasn’t eliminated the need for more in-depth thought leadership and reports.

“I think reports are still going to be there,” he says. “There's still an audience at that level – financial planners, journalists, institutional fund managers and clients – who want to read analysis or a report.

“They don’t want to make a decision on a 280-character tweet or a one minute video.”

Reports and thought leadership are vital to maintaining and building credibility, he says.

“If all you're doing was just the videos and don't actually put an effort into writing decent reports and analysis, then eventually people will move on to someone else.”

5. Keep leveraging the power of the mainstream media

While social media has taken some of its audience, Shane says the mainstream media remains part of the reality of the world we're in and is still vital to profile and brand building. Thought leaders therefore shouldn’t ignore it.

“A lot of the people who might be interested in your products are still consuming traditional media,” he says. “So I think there's still a role for traditional forms of communications. It's just this whole other form has come along.”

Shane regularly comments for titles including The ABC, The Australian and The Australian Financial Review. In the AFR, for example, he has recently spoken about housing affordability, interest rates, and the stock market.

6. Don’t get lost in metrics and comments

Many communicators become obsessed with metrics and data. And AMP regularly tracks metrics for Shane’s content.

But Shane says he tries to avoid getting overly focused on them. “I don't like competing with myself and worrying about, ‘Oh, I’ve got X [traffic] on this one, but this one was less than that, so I must be failing at something’.

He also limits the amount of ‘feedback’ and comments he ingests. “You can go down a bit of a slippery slope if you keep looking at feedback too much and looking at notifications.

“As Paul McCartney once said: if you read your own stuff and feedback, you're going to either end up with a big head, a big ego problem, or you end up paranoid.”

7. Be concise and visual

Shane says that being concise is vital and to achieve that he does several things:

· He limits length. Oliver’s Insights is just two A4 pages.

· Shane also minimises technical jargon. “I often read through what I write to make sure that people would understand it because economics and finance can be very complex and there's a lot of jargon.”

· He often uses lists, like ‘Five reasons why interest rates have peaked’. “Then the potential reader knows what they’re going to get,” he says.

· To enhance ease of reading he also uses dot points, which makes it easier for readers to scan, particularly online.

· Shane provides a summary of key points at the start. “Then people don’t have to read the whole article.”

· He also likes to use graphs because it “shows things in context”. (One of my favourite all-time investing charts is Shane’s ‘wall of worry’ below.)

8. Take a strong stand

Many communicate and simply provide information. But Shane says you add value to material with a clear conclusion. In his case, that’s primarily “what it means for investors”.

“That [a conclusion] is where the rubber hits the road,” he says. “There is no point just waffling on about a topic for the sake of waffling. The ‘it could be this; it could be that’ approach can turn readers off.”

But he also likes to be contrarian.

“If everyone's turning up the noise and getting shrill about it, I might try and go the other way and say: ‘Well, it's not that bad. It'll be okay.’ Whilst also conceding there are risks.”

9. Be optimistic in a world of negativity

Part of Shane’s contrarianism is to lean towards optimism. “There is a lot of negativity out there. I think there is a bit of a market for being a bit more optimistic.

“Historically, things often turn out to be okay,” he says. “I think about all the years there was supposed to be a market crash, but when you look back at the history they usually don’t happen.”

Shane’s recent Oliver’s Insights on Trump – ‘Trump 2.0: Why investors should expect a somewhat rougher ride, but it may not be as bad as feared’ – is a good example of his contrarian optimism.

Shane notes that many of his highest-read stories are during market stress.

10.  Always keep improving

Shane says that it takes time to become a great communicator. “You have to put the time in; it's not going to come instantaneously. It could take a few years.”

Shane notes that he is naturally an analyst and economist. He doesn’t consider himself a writer. “It’s not my area of expertise. It didn’t initially come naturally.”

But early in his career, he realised a key role of an economist is to get out in public and promote himself and the company. So he worked hard to improve by understanding his own style and through training.

Shane regarded himself initially as a “fairly dry communicator” in oral communication.

Based on the DiSC personality model, he is conscientious – a style that likes facts and is naturally dry.  “But you can also put people to sleep if you just stick to that style.”

Public speaking courses and media training convinced Shane to cover the key points, but to also loosen up and be relaxed. (Shane also recommends creative writing courses.)

“You’ve got to give yourself permission to be a little less technical and a bit more entertaining,” he says.

And Shane says that communicating regularly – certainly more frequently than quarterly – is also important to building skills.

Great communication is more vital to career and business growth than ever

The communication and content landscape has never been more chaotic and crowded.

But Shane has proven that with a strong purpose, strong underlying principles, and a never-ending quest to improve, it is possible to become a great communicator and build a successful long-term brand.

He says the investment and effort are worth it because clear and compelling communication is more important than ever.

“When I began 40 years ago, most of my material was for internal consumption. It was just communicating with like-minded people. So you didn't really have to put as much effort into communications.

“Whereas now it's critically important if you want to keep your business going and grow it. You've got to learn to communicate in a way that has an entertainment aspect, but also substance.”